Questions on Starting Paleo

 Posted by on 5 June 2010 at 1:00 pm  Food, FormSpring, Health
Jun 052010

Some FormSpring Questions and Answers with advice on starting a paleo diet:

Does the paleo diet “work” if you don’t adhere to it strictly, or do the benefits only come if you completely cut out the forbidden foods, like wheat?

Health isn’t an all or nothing proposition: it exists on a continuum. So if you eat better, you should look, feel, and perform better to some extent.

That being said, if you have gluten intolerance or celiac disease — as many people do — then until you give up wheat, you’ll still fare badly.

In you’re willing and able, why not try paleo for a month in a serious way? Then you can judge its value to you for yourself.

What would you do if you really thought paleo eating was the way to go, but you’re a super-busy single-parent with no spare time and you’re lucky to get to feed yourself at all, let alone spend a lot of time thinking about it or shopping?

I’d focus on the big stuff: minimize grains, sugars, and modern vegetable oils as much as possible in favor of meat, fish, eggs, nuts, veggies, and high-fat dairy.

To do that, you’ll probably want to clean the junk out of your pantry, shop for the essentials, and then seek out restaurants that serve better food for eating out.

Notably, I spend far less time shopping and cooking on a paleo diet than I used to — and I now cook every night (and day). I go to the grocery store once per week, and I can whip up an excellent meal of meat and veggies in 15 minutes.

Also, you might try eating better breakfasts one week, then adding better lunches the next, then adding better snacks the next, then finally adding better dinners. That way, you can adjust gradually, and the change doesn’t seem so overwhelming. [That's Robb Wolf's suggestion.]

A person doesn’t need to become totally paleo overnight. Any steps in the right direction are … well.. steps in the right direction.

I hope this doesn’t come across as rude, but… If the paleo diet is so effective, why is it that the media hasn’t covered in it great detail?

It’s not rude, it’s the fallacy of appeal to authority!

The media is hardly the best judge of the value of anything, let alone the value of diets. More often than not, reports on nutrition in the popular media are particularly moronic. (That’s saying something!)

As an alternative to judging the value of something based on the extent of its media coverage, might I suggest that you think and judge for yourself? Really, that’s the only way to live.

Also, for the sake of accuracy, I should know that paleo-type diets have been getting some media attention lately.

[There was lots of discussion of this answer on Facebook.]

Can you still follow something approaching a paleo diet if you require high fiber for medical reasons?

I don’t know about the fiber contents of vegetables, so I couldn’t say. You’d have to look into that for yourself. However, I imagine that eating paleo with a boatload of veggies would involve a fair amount of fiber.

Personally, I don’t pay a lick of attention to fiber content of foods. As a general matter, I’m highly doubtful of the value of fiber, including of claims that a person needs fiber for medical reasons. If I needed fiber for some reason, I definitely wouldn’t get it from grains. But that’s me; you’d have to do your own research.

I would recommend Gary Taubes’ discussion of fiber in Good Calories, Bad Calories. Also, Stephan Guyenet wrote up some interesting commentary in favor of fiber from veggies here.

I hope that’s at least somewhat helpful.

Questions on Paleo

 Posted by on 5 June 2010 at 7:00 am  Food, FormSpring, Health
Jun 052010

Some FormSpring Questions and Answers on paleo and related topics:

I understand and accept the premise of the paleo/primal way. I have, however, heard of people losing weight on low fat diets. How can this be explained?

To lose weight, you have to create a calorie deficit, so that the body has to draw on its own reserves to function. For some people — the not-yet-metabolically-deranged, perhaps — that’s possible to do on a low-fat diet.

Two points are worth noting, however:

(1) Studies have found that low-fat diets draw largely on muscle, whereas low-carb diets draw largely on fat stores. Losing muscle is not a healthy kind of weight loss.

(2) Most people will be hungry and grumpy on a low-fat diet. That’s not true of a low-carb diet.

Dr. Eades has done some great blogging on “metabolic advantage” lately. I’d recommend reading that.

Follow up question: I have known people who seem to eat anything they want and still lose weight by, they claim, working out. How can this be explained? I didn’t think it really worked that way according to what I know about health/fitness.

Yowza. If you need to know how to sous vide fish, then ask me. However, for the biochemistry of fat loss, I am so not your girl!

Some people can lose weight primarily by exercise. Paul lost about 30 pounds by running 3-6 miles per day and limiting his portions. (He lost another five pounds without trying when we switched to a paleo-ish diet.)

Like before, all that I can say is that, for some people, adding some workouts creates the necessary caloric deficit for fat loss. For the rest of us, however, it don’t do squat.

Why is Vitamin D so important?

“Current research has implicated vitamin D deficiency as a major factor in the pathology of at least 17 varieties of cancer as well as heart disease, stroke, hypertension, autoimmune diseases, diabetes, depression, chronic pain, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, muscle weakness, muscle wasting, birth defects, periodontal disease, and more.”

Vitamin D Council

Why did the low-carb fad come and go in the general public, but the paleo diet has stuck around among people following Objectivism and related philosophies?

That’s not what’s happened.

Low-carb suffered from the proliferation of low-carb junk food. Such junk won’t make you healthy (or thin) — and many people gave up on low-carb as a result.

Paleo has gained a following in the whole culture due to its insistence on eating real food — and the results thereof. (Merely low-carb diets don’t do that.) That’s a general trend today, thanks to Michael Pollan and others, not just among paleo-eaters.

As for why paleo is popular amongst Objectivists, I’m pretty sure that’s because I blogged about it regularly. A bunch of my readers tried it — and liked it.

Are carbohydrates on the side of good or evil?

Some sources of carbohydrates are fit for human consumption, while others are not. They’re not on any “side” though.

Have you read *The Vegetarian Myth* and what is your take? Despite many bad ideas (anti-cap’ism, mysticism, environmentalism, etc.), I find compelling its indictment of agriculture as an agent of poor human health. Does pro-cap’ism = pro-agriculture?

I haven’t yet read it, although I plan to do so.

Of course, supporting capitalism doesn’t entail endorsing any specific products thereof. However, I’m not anti-agriculture in the slightest. I love many of the products of agriculture… namely vegetables, meat, eggs, etc. Grains are not the only product of agriculture. Agriculture is “the science or practice of farming, including cultivation of the soil for the growing of crops and the rearing of animals to provide food, wool, and other products.” Go agriculture!

Questions on Drugs

 Posted by on 3 June 2010 at 7:00 am  FormSpring, Personal
Jun 032010

Some FormSpring Questions and Answers on recreational drugs:

Have you used any drugs recreationally other than alcohol, coffee, or nicotine? If so, what did you think? If not, why not?

I smoked marijuana a few times while in high school, and I dropped acid once. The marijuana wasn’t exactly smart of me, but the acid was particularly bad judgment on my part — and not a fun experience in itself.

That bit of drug experimentation was part of a short but scary downward slide for me in my junior year of high school. I got caught by my parents and the school after dropping the acid. That was a mixed blessing. The slide was arrested, but I suffered from the brouhaha that created (partly self-imposed) for some years thereafter.

I’m still proud that I was able to recover academically that year. I took five AP exams that year: I got four 5s and a 4. That enabled me to skip a year of college.

I’ve not done any recreational drugs since then, and I have no desire to do them.

Have you ever used any mind-enhancing drugs, such as Adderall or Ritalin? I’m glad you dropped the acid before you could use it, I hear that it can do permanent damage.

Oh dear, you’ve misunderstood. To “drop” acid is to take it. And no, I’ve not used any mind-enhancing drugs… unless you count desiccated porcine thyroid. But that’s just returned my mental function to normal, not enhanced it.

That was just a joke about “dropping” the acid. Your use of drug slang sounded so odd to me, I just couldn’t help making fun. Thanks for answering though, it really made my day!

Ah then, my pleasure!

In an earlier answer you stated that you haven’t used any recreational drugs since high school. A more recent answer seems to imply that you occasionally use alcohol. Is one or the other of these mistaken?

Yes, I do occasionally imbibe alcohol. I don’t consider that a “recreational drug,” because I think it’s quite different in its effects from marijuana, cocaine, heroin, etc. Perhaps that’s wrong of me — I’ve not thought about the issue much, nor experimented with enough drugs perhaps — but that’s my view.

[In a Facebook comment, I explained why I don't regard alcohol as a recreational drug:

Here's why I'm reluctant to speak of alcohol as a "recreational drug."

I wouldn't classify all substances that affect the mind, affect behavior, might be addictive, and produce pleasure as "recreational drugs." If that were true, then sugar and wheat would have to be classified as "recreational drugs" too. (Yes, they fit all those criteria for a huge number of people.) That seems over-broad.

The term "recreational" seems to imply that the people use the substance in question as recreation, meaning as a kind of primary activity. Alcohol can definitely be used that way -- and routinely is by dumb college students. That's how people use cocaine, heroin, marijuana, etc. However, that's not true of my very moderate consumption of alcohol -- nor ordinary uses of caffeine and tobacco.

I'm inclined to say the term "recreational drug" is not just about the properties inherent in some substance. Those properties are necessary, but not sufficient. Instead, the fundamental is how a person uses the substance in question, i.e. the role that it plays in his life.

Again, I could be persuaded otherwise, but for the moment, that's my view.]

May 272010

Some FormSpring Questions and Answers related to the Objectivist community:

Why does there seem to be a shortage of Objectivist women?

Shortages are merely opportunities to make money under capitalism. So… get cracking!

More seriously, men outnumber women in political activism, academic philosophy, and the like. Most women simply aren’t interested in seriously intellectual pursuits. (That’s for good and bad reasons, I think.)

Happily, the sex-imbalance in Objectivist circles seems to be diminishing. I suspect that’s because the movement is far healthier — more social, more fun, less repressed — than it used to be.

I’ve seen a big change (for the better) at OCON in recent years, partly due to the rise of social media. Many people new to the conference aren’t strangers: they’re old friends that you’re finally seeing in the flesh. That’s awesome.

I hope that my various OLists — where people get to know each other based on mutual interest in optional values, rather than arguing about philosophy — help too.

When you started OBloggers, did you have any idea that there would be so many Objectivist bloggers who write about so many different topics? Did you realize you’d be creating a community of sorts?

When I began creating OList e-mail lists, my original focus was on the OAcademics list. I really wanted to talk with other Objectivist academics about what I was hearing, reading, and teaching as a graduate student. To my surprise and annoyance, that list has been a near-total failure. (It’s mostly silent. I’ve got some suspicions as to why that is.)

OBloggers, on the other hand, has been a fabulous success. The list — particularly with the blog carnival, and now in conjunction with Twitter — has created a genuine community, at least among the active Objectivist bloggers. (The list currently has 145 subscribers, but I’m not sure even where all those people are blogging.) I didn’t foresee that completely, but I hoped for something like it!

I’m also really pleased with OActivsts, OGrownups, and most especially OEvolve. Those lists — along with social media — have helped create a vibrant Objectivist community… and that was very evident in the super-intense socializing at the last OCON.

I’m looking forward to more at Vegas in July!

Oh, and if you don’t know what the heck all these OLists are, visit

[Note: I wrote that before the creation of OProducers, OGardeners, and OShooters.]

Is America ready for a sitcom about Objectivists living it up?

OMG, that would be so intensely boring. We’re not exactly “Jersey Shore” material.

Although… Robert Mayhew, Eric Daniels, and Greg Salmieri can be damn funny, in a geeky academic way. Still, no.

May 242010

Some FormSpring Questions and Answers on philosophy in business:

It’s hard to be pro-business since few (none?) are actually in favor of freedom and individual rights, but rather lobby to twist big government to their purposes which mostly conflict with individual rights. Thoughts?

I’m pro-business for the awesome products they produce that make my life better — not for their politics, nor for their pull-peddling.

Sadly, it’s not reasonable to expect businesses to be any better than the culture as a whole. And the culture is solidly behind a mixed economy.

Why don’t companies/firms hire staff philosophers?

Most philosophers would be destructive to business, as they’re hostile to the self-interested pursuit of profit.

Good philosophers could be useful, but likely only as occasional consultants, not full-time employees. However, most businessmen today are extremely pragmatic and somewhat altruistic, so they wouldn’t see the value in a principled approach to business.

Can you think of a good, specific example of how a consulting philosopher might be of value to a business? Especially assuming the business owner was already an Objectivist and had a basic grasp of rational selfishness and the danger/evil of altruism.

The fact that a business owner is an Objectivist doesn’t mean that he will create a corporate culture that supports the virtues. (For an example of what that looks like, see what John Allison did with BB&T.)

A philosopher could help do that. It’s not trivial, for example, to see what justice requires in compensation. Or whether the business should be involved in charity. Or how to deal fairly with an employee suffering from personal problems. Or how to maximize productivity. Or how to ensure that employees are rewarded for facing problems rather than evading them.

Via the Ayn Rand Institute, Objectivist intellectuals have done that kind work with Hutchinson Technologies; they’ve put together training seminars and the like for management.

Questions on Sex and Romance

 Posted by on 19 May 2010 at 7:00 am  FormSpring, Love/Sex
May 192010

Some FormSpring Questions and Answers on sex and romance:

What is the best pick-up line to use on a rational woman such as your self?

Any man who would think of interacting with women in terms of “pick-up lines” wouldn’t get anywhere with me. Talk about something of substance in a lively way, then I might be interested. Overall, I’m definitely a “friendship-first” kind of gal.

More generally, I can’t imagine that I’d be even remotely interested in a total stranger pursuing me. That would actually be really off-putting: I wouldn’t think they were exercising good judgment to be interested in me purely from my looks. Plus, I’m too much of a weirdo (by conventional standards) to be interested in random guys.

Is exclusivity in a romantic relationship a reasonable expectation, or should I accept that I might be left for someone more suitable at any moment?

You need to know and ask for what you want in a relationship. If that something is sufficiently important to you, you need to end the relationship if you don’t get it.

It’s perfectly reasonable to ask for exclusivity in a relationship. I wouldn’t have it any other way, personally. More than that, I’m pretty firmly convinced that multiple partners (whether flings or affairs or polyamory) are psychologically destructive for everyone involved.

Moreover, if your partner might abandon you for something that seems better at the drop of a hat, that tells you something, namely that you’re not valued in the slightest by this person. You’re just a placeholder. That would be terribly degrading — and it would prevent you from seeking out a worthwhile relationship.

Can sexual acts be rational as versus irrational? If so, examples?


It would be irrational to cheat on your beloved wife (or husband) with some worthless bimbo.

It would be irrational to sleep with a person you find unattractive, uninteresting, or immoral.

It would be irrational to sleep with someone just because you’re bored or drunk.

It would be irrational to sleep with a total stranger who might be diseased or psychotic.

And so on… In all of these cases, the sex would not be a value to you — and it might even be seriously damaging. That’s irrational.

I think that questioner was asking if particular sexual acts are more or less irrational than others (vice versa with the other partner objecting to them)? E.g. Anal, bondage, pegging, etc


I’d say that a sex act definitely shouldn’t endanger life, limb, or health. It shouldn’t be seriously painful. It shouldn’t be degrading. It should be consensual.

I’d also say that it shouldn’t express a twisted psychology… but that’s somewhat harder to describe, except that such sexual acts often violate the above conditions.

I don’t see any inherent problem with anal, light bondage, sex toys, or whatnot. If you’re into them, use them — provided they’re not a distraction from the intimacy of sex. If not, then don’t bother with them.

Does morality apply to dating? In other words, is it possible for one’s choice of a romantic partner to be morally wrong?

Yes. It would be morally wrong to date Hilter, even if he brings you the nicest flowers.

Other (less extreme) examples are pretty easy to imagine. Take a look at my earlier Q&A on sex.

Questions on Ethics

 Posted by on 12 May 2010 at 7:00 am  Advice, Ethics, FormSpring
May 122010

Some FormSpring Questions and Answers on ethics:

Is it moral to copy music from a CD so you can listen to it on your MP3 player? Should this be made illegal?

(1) Yes. (2) No.

In my view, the owners of copyrighted products — meaning the people who buy books or CDs — are entitled to do what they please with those items, including copy them, provided that all those copies stay in their possession. In other words, copyright does not prevent them from copying per se but rather copying then distributing or selling those copies.

So a person can transfer a CD to his computer, even though that requires copying. That’s not a violation of the rights of the copyright holder, provided that he retains all copies, rather than, for example giving away or selling the original.

How morally culpable is a person if they were introduced to the works of Ayn Rand through illegally downloaded copies of her books but after having studied them they realized the error and purchased every single book they downloaded?

I’d say that such a person acted wrongly, but then they corrected that wrong, and that’s pretty much all that matters in this context.

More, that correction shows good character. It’s hugely important that a person be willing to correct his errors, rather than rationalize them to avoid guilt. That willingness to face the facts and act accordingly — even concerning one’s own moral failings — is the essence of good character. If a person can do that, then everything else is just a matter of time.

In Canada the gov’t has banned some satellite signals. If Canada was a free country people would be able to pay for these tv signals and watch them, but can’t because of the ban. From Objectivisms view, is it immoral to watch these channels in Canada?

I don’t think so, provided that (1) you don’t conceal what you’re doing and (2) you advocate for the lifting of the ban.

You are not morally responsible for the force wielded by others, nor obliged to penalize yourself for their sins — provided that you don’t sanction those sins. If you wanted to keep the ban in place so that you could continue to receive the signals for free, that would be immoral.

Ayn Rand’s essay on “A Question of Scholarships” in Voice of Reason is relevant to these questions. I recommend it!

Do you think that it is possible to enjoy rap music and not have a malevolent sense of life? I’m referring specifically to the type of rap in which the rapper boasts of committing immoral acts such as gunning down cops and slapping whores.

Yeesh! I don’t think that a person with a healthy sense of life could enjoy that kind of blatantly nihilistic rap.

I’m not condemning all rap. (I like a bit of it myself.) I’m not morally condemning the person who likes that kind of rap, as it’s not a matter of choice in the short term. However, it’s a good indication that a person needs to reshape his sense of life. If a person is unwilling to do that, then it becomes a moral issue.

As with all music, the question to ask is: Why are you attracted to it? What do you get out of it?

Have you ever donated to Wikipedia?

No. I’m routinely disgusted by their altruistic appeals for donations.

Plus, I’ve always thought that Wikipedia should support itself via nice little text ads relevant to the topic. As with people, no enterprise that can be self-supporting should make itself an object of charity.

[The posting of this answer to Facebook spawned some very interesting comments, including some from my old friend Jimmy Wales. My view is definitely somewhat more moderate now.]

If you need assistance from someone who doesn’t have any particular reason to offer it apart from good will, how would you go about asking them?

Very straightforwardly — and without any hint of expectations of or demands on the person.

Questions about Me

 Posted by on 11 May 2010 at 1:30 pm  FormSpring, Personal
May 112010

Some FormSpring Questions and Answers on me:

How is your last name pronounced? by AbsoluteKeenan

The simple way is to pronounce it like “Shay.” The more complicated (and correct) way is to pronounce it like “she” and “eh” mushed into a single syllable.

Notably, that’s how my Taiwanese in-laws pronounce it. Mainland Chinese pronounce the name slightly differently. Also, it’s now spelled “Xie” in China. That would be super-awesome if it weren’t communist. (Yes, the spelling of names has been a hot political topic in Taiwan.)

How old are you?

That’s really a question that you should ask Paul. He keeps track for me. But… doing the math… I’m 35. (And yes, I verified that with Paul.)

Why are you such a sucker for the incessant button pushing of Mafia Wars? It’s so dumb. Why am I? by vizionpix

I think that such games are satisfying because they give the illusion of purpose and accomplishment.

For me, Mafia Wars is a quick break from work that can’t occupy more than a few minutes. That’s really good, as otherwise I can get engrossed in my break fun rather than getting back to work in a timely way.

[Mafia Wars has gotten boring. So now I'm playing "Words with Friends" instead.]

Are you proficient in any foreign languages? If so, would consider writing for foreign media?

I only know French, and that’s pretty rusty. I’d like to brush up on it, not for writing, but so that I could read French literature without the distortion of translation.

Someday, I’d like to learn Latin, then all the Romance languages, then ancient Greek, then Mandarin. That might have to wait until my 70s though. I’m pretty well-booked until then.

Do you say soda, pop, or coke?

Soda, but I rarely say it because I’ve always hated the stuff.

May 072010

Some FormSpring Questions and Answers on politics and activism:

What is worse? Anarchy or the current system of government in the USA?

Anarchy is worse, undoubtedly. Compare America today to a concrete example of anarchy, namely Somalia a few years ago. At the time, the territory lacked a functioning government; it was dominated by various competing warlords. It was an absolute nightmare. I’d pick America over that in a heartbeat. I’m sure that almost every self-described anarchist would too.

Anarchists will tell you that’s not what they mean by anarchy, of course. It’s not a peaceful patchwork of voluntary defense agencies! That’s right, but hardly reason for protest. We have no reason to expect peace — or the slightest hint of respect for individual rights — when force is open to “competition” rather than limited by objective principles of individual rights. We have every reason to expect oppression, violence, and war.

Anarchism is wrong in theory — and that’s why it would mean death and destruction in practice.

What are the 3 to 5 most important questions you would ask a political candidate today? At any level of government?

Hmmm… I’m not too sure, but I’d say that the critical issue to find out a politician’s view of what individual rights are and whether they plan to uphold them.

Here’s my attempt:

  • Do you plan to govern according to the principles of individual rights or based on something else?
  • Why or why not?
  • What do you think that entails for you in [xyz] position?


    Do think Objectivists should steer clear of the organized Tea Parties on tax day, because the media could associate Objectivism with the nutty aspects of the Tea Party Movement?


    At least in Colorado, I’ve only seen the occasional nutter at tea party rallies. And people’s signs are almost always quite good. So I don’t worry that I’m associating myself with bad people.

    More generally, however, I don’t believe in forgoing great activism opportunities — particularly handing out flyers for FRO, TOS, FIRM, etc to very interested people — because of the potential for distortions of the media. That would be second-handed — and ensure our defeat if adopted as a policy.

  • May 032010

    For a while now, I’ve been wanting to make my many FormSpring Questions and Answers into blog posts. You’ll be seeing them over the next few weeks. They’re a bit less formal than my ordinary blogging, but still interesting, I hope! I’ve answered 138 questions so far, so that will make quite a few posts.

    Here’s one on meditation, then two on religion.

    Have you ever practiced meditation? Supposedly, it makes it easier for your mind to concentrate. It also supposed to make it easier to relax, which would be useful for falling asleep.

    Yes, my friend Joshua Zader introduced me to the basics of meditation many years ago. The practice helped him a great deal, and I was curious.

    Meditation didn’t do much for my capacity to concentrate beyond what a deep breath and asking “Diana, what the heck are you doing?” does though. Nor does it help me much with sleep, although some of the techniques I use are similar to meditation techniques.

    Overall though, I’d say that a person needs to know how to sit quietly with himself and allow his mind to be still — rather than frantically racing from one thought to the next or being swamped with overwhelming emotion. A person needs to be able to quiet and direct his mind according to his own will, even when difficult. Some forms of meditation offer practice in creating that state of rational mental calm.

    Without that kind of control over his own mind, a person will be unable to cope with overwhelming situations — particularly emotionally stressful ones — in a rational and purposeful way. He’ll melt down in an emergency rather than acting as needed to overcome it. He’ll be unable to think through a conflict in a relationship due to raw feelings. He’ll not want to confront some unpleasant facts because he knows he’ll be unhinged by them. And so on. His life will be worse — perhaps far worse — for being unable to quiet and direct his mind.

    Of course, a person doesn’t need to engage in formal meditation to achieve that kind of rational control over his mind. However, the techniques of meditation are highly effective for learning and practicing that control. So they’re be a good place to start, at least.

    There does not seem to be a “bridge” between reason and faith, so if someone was religious for their whole life, how does one ditch the supernatural and become an atheist?

    Adopt and practice two rules:

  • Steadfastly refuse to think about what does not exist.
  • Think lots about what does exist.

    It’s no small task to overhaul one’s mental habits, but it can be done, if a person is willing to exert the mental effort to direct his thinking according to what he knows to be right.

    As for why someone rejects the supernatural after a lifetime of faith, that’s a different matter. That’s exceedingly rare, I think. Most atheists become atheists while they’re young, while they’re questioning and forming their personal philosophy. If an older person rejects his faith, that’s usually due to some personal crisis, e.g. How could a loving, benevolent God give my sweet daughter this awful terminal disease? However, such crises seem just as likely to strengthen faith. That’s often deeply illogical, but the person of faith is not committed to logic.

    Why do so many people have a problem with argumentum ad ignorantiam? I’ve noticed this with the God concept, aliens, ghosts, Bigfoot, Santa Claus, you name it.

    You could say that about most fallacies. The reason that they’re identified as fallacies is that people accept them as if they’re good arguments.

    Still, appeal to ignorance is particularly common… probably due to the fact that our educational system doesn’t teach our young’uns what constitutes proof.

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