Comments from NoodleFood


Note: This comment system was replaced with Disqus in May 2010.

Comment #1

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 3:04:58 mdt
Name: Francisco Gutierrez
URL: http://franciscogutierrez.blogspot.com

Impressive! Worked much better than my own experiments with subliminal persuasion, hiding messages in recorded music tapes, when I was a teenager. I have had arguments with people who cite things like this as evidence that free will is an illusion. But you hit the issue dead on in your last sentence, advertising can only give you associations, feelings of comfort, familiarity, etc. Somebody who is used to thinking before acting will not fall for it. At worst you might be surprised that when you are at the grocery store your emotions favor one brand over the other without having read the ingredients, price per unit, etc. and you will probably identify that as the effect of advertising and discount it appropriately. But the type of person who is used to acting on his feelings without thinking about them will fall for it.



Comment #2

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 4:04:06 mdt
Name: vic

You are great Diana !

This video will draw outrage from the People for Ethical Treatment of Advertisers.

Subliminal messages are important: that's why we all take our shoes off at the plane gate and the 90 year old woman is searched.

The mooing sound I hear is the public heard of cattle being moved through the pen runs to the slaughter gate by the advertisers.

It's relevant during the political season: Those taxidermied animals are actually our politcal candidates which are being sold to us.



Comment #3

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 4:17:53 mdt
Name: vic

"The simple fact is that advertising doesn't compel anyone to buy a product. At best, it can create some warm and fuzzy associations. A person can act on those random impulses -- or he can choose to think about his purchases. It's wholly up to him."

Very true, because good advertising will mainly remove any "negatives" or prejudices. We all laugh at the funny Budweiser Super Bowl ads so we will not think drinking is a bad thing, Wal Mart does the ad about the employee's child with cancer, the defense companies do the patriotic spots. "Damage Control" works.



Comment #4

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 7:30:01 mdt
Name: LarryO

Diana,

After your prior post of a Darren Brown video, I watched a large number of other such clips on YouTube. I learned that they are all originate from a TV show he did in Great Britain.

A little searching around, and I found that those shows have just now begun to be shown (about 2 weeks ago) on the SciFi Channel on Wednesday nights. They are starting with Season 1, so we can see the entire series, eventually. This advertising sequence was shown last week.

It is also possible to download the missing episodes from iTunes @ $1.99 each.

Thanks for bring this guy to our attention. He's really fascinating.

Larry



Comment #5

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 8:17:10 mdt
Name: Valda Redfern
URL: http://valzhalla.blogspot.com/

Before the iatrophobe began his rants, some posters were discussing the nature of health care: is it intrinsically different from the other kinds of goods and services available on the free market? Most advocates of socialised health care believe that it is indeed different - since it's a matter of life and death, it is too important to leave to the whims of the free market.

But all goods and services are, ultimately, a matter of life and death. Craig Biddle made the point during his recent course at OCON07 ("The Science of Selfishness") that everything you do either is in your _best_ interest or it is not. If you only have enough money for a DVD or a book, and you buy the DVD on impulse although you'd benefit more from reading the book, then you have acted against your own best interest. It's only a very little sacrifice, in that example, but a sacrifice nonetheless. If you make the wrong health care decision, the results could be much more drastic, but the principle is the same.

To take a different tack, it is obviously a matter of life and death whether I eat or not. Because I live in a relatively free country, getting enough to eat is easy for me: no one here has yet suggested that supermarkets are too important to be left in the hands of greedy exploiters who want to earn more money for less effort (ie increase both productivity and efficiency) and that supermarkets should therefore be run by the state.

The only way in which the provision of health care (which everyone needs) differs from the provision of food (which everyone needs) is that people don't usually require emergency food. Come to that, most people don't require emergency medical treatment either, but given that some do, how would socialisation of the medical professions help? To put it another way, if most people in western societies achieve advanced old age without ever having been in the slightest danger of starving, because of the operation of the free market, why wouldn't the free market be able to cope with emergency needs as well as long term health care needs?



Comment #6

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 9:59:00 mdt
Name: Marnee

These shows are also copy righted! The user who posted them is not authorized to reproduce or redistribute these "clips", which are actually entire segments of the show, in any form. This is also an obvious violation of You Tube's policies and will probably be removed and the user's account canceled. Reproducing these segments here is also, by extension, a violation of Derren Brown's property rights AND You Tube's use policy. Diana's posting these here seems to me to be an inconsistent, if somewhat minor, application of her own position on I.P. Rights, a discussion, I remember, being quite active not too long ago. I hope she comes to realize this and dispenses with posting obviously copy righted material, if for any reason other than to demonstrate her integrity. There are plenty of videos on You Tube that are free to display, many of which cover and demonstrate what Derren Brown does in his shows (NLP, subliminal suggestion, and cold reading).

Perhaps a summary would have sufficed (Yes.)?

At any rate I highly recommend the Derren Brown DVDs of all of his productions. If you can, make sure you pick up the season where he "converts" atheists.

Marnee Dearman



Comment #7

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 11:43:31 mdt
Name: vic

"These shows are also copy righted!"....laws, laws, laws, all human beings do is make laws because we are trapped in the world of good and evil!...But the will is Beyond Good and Evil!!!



Comment #8

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 12:30:22 mdt
Name: RT

I think it's an interesting psycho-epistemological demonstration, and one that Derren Brown relies on quite frequently in his stunts. He primes the person's subsconscious with the material he wishes to plant, and then he sets up a situation where the person must suddenly pull 'something' out of his mind related to that situation. Not surprisingly, the planted material is the freshest and hence usually what the person calls up. Often he will even say something like 'don't think about it, just give me the first thing that comes to your mind'.

Diana wrote: "The obvious lesson that many would draw from the impressive stunt is that consumers are in the all-encompassing grip of corporations and their advertising, such that free will is an illusion and a joke. (Ironically enough, that's not much more than a standard line often parroted without much thought.)"

Exactly -- another demonstration of the same phenomenon! Most people don't think about most issues. So when they are in a situation that requires them to give an opinion, they simply call up from the subconscious whatever it is they've heard said about that situation in the past -- i.e. some parroted bromide.



Comment #9

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 12:31:22 mdt
Name: RT

Marnee, I've tried to find the DVD's, but all I could find was European format ones that wouldn't play in North America -- any idea where I can find North American versions?



Comment #10

Monday, August 13, 2007 at 17:25:08 mdt
Name: Nicholas Provenzo
URL: http://www.capitalismcenter.org

>I've tried to find the DVD's, but all I could find was European format ones that wouldn't play in North America

The trick is to either purchase a multi-region DVD Player or find the multi-region code for your player.



Comment #11

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 at 10:15:03 mdt
Name: Diana Hsieh
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

Vic said: "Subliminal messages are important: that's why we all take our shoes off at the plane gate and the 90 year old woman is searched. The mooing sound I hear is the public heard of cattle being moved through the pen runs to the slaughter gate by the advertisers."

WTF??? Vic, you seem to have no understanding of what anyone else has written. Please take yourself and your tinfoil hat elsewhere.



Comment #12

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 at 11:54:14 mdt
Name: LarryO

A correction and expansion to my earlier comment.

Season One of Darren Brown's MIND CONTROL program (the original one-hour British-produced TV shows from which the YouTube clips were apparently pirated) started on the SciFi cable channel three weeks ago. New episodes are shown every THURSDAY, not Wednesday as I previously stated.

Anyone lacking cable/satellite access, may legally purchase the programs at Apple's iTunes, either by the episode ($.99 each), or by the full season ($9.99).



Comment #13

Wednesday, August 15, 2007 at 2:36:43 mdt
Name: vic

"WTF??? Vic, you seem to have no understanding of what anyone else has written. Please take yourself and your tinfoil hat elsewhere. "

Diana, I humbly apologize for my paranoiac comments on your blog and wish you my heartfelt appreciation for recognizing them.

Perhaps paranoia is a disease whereby people are trying to regain their sense of whole or being.

"The word "We" is as lime poured over men, which sets and hardens to stone, and crushes all beneath it, and that which is white and that which is black are lost equally in the grey of it. It is the word by which the depraved steal the virtue of the good, by which the weak steal the might of the strong, by which the fools steal the wisdom of the sages.

What is my joy if all hands, even the unclean, can reach into it? What is my wisdom, if even the fools can dictate to me? What is my freedom, if all creatures, even the botched and the impotent, are my masters? What is my life, if I am but to bow, to agree and to obey?

But I am done with this creed of corruption.

I am done with the monster of "We," the word of serfdom, of plunder, of misery,falsehood and shame.

And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being,this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride.

This god, this one word:

"I."

The "School of Life" does damage many of us and rob us of our being.

I will not blog you again.
Bless You and Paul



Comment #14

Sunday, August 19, 2007 at 5:59:41 mdt
Name: Diana Hsieh
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

Marnee: I really don't know whether those clips are posted with permission or not. It's properly the job of YouTube, the poster, and the copyright holder to ensure that clips are posted with proper permission. Ordinary viewers don't have the requisite knowledge to do much more than guess as to whether that's the case or not.

So my policy is that I post material from YouTube absent some reasonable certainty -- as opposed to mere supposition -- that the clip is pirated. A "precautionary principle" is not warranted. If YouTube is, by its very nature, unable to prevent piracy, then it should to be shut down by the courts. (There's an ongoing lawsuit about clips from Comedy Central shows, in fact.) If you think my policy is wrong, you're welcome not to watch the clip. You're welcome to write YouTube or the copyright holder about it. Further presumptuous public accusations of moral wrongdoing are not welcome, however.

If others wish to object to my policy, I'd be happy to hear arguments.